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Subject: You can't do a statistical analysis of that kind of phenomenon, because...
Posted by: UHoo on Thu Aug 7 2008 7:21:01 PM
Message:

... players have to adjust to game circumstances, and those
adjustments will affect the numbers.

It's like, if a baseball player gets a one-out single and then gets
thrown out trying to steal second base. If the next guy gets a
double, you can say that if the guy hadn't been thrown out trying to
steal second, the team would have scored a run. Except that we all
know the pitcher would have pitched a whole lot differently if he had
pitched to the batter with one out and a man on first than he did
pitching to him with two outs and the bases empty. So you can say it,
but we all know that it isn't necessarily true.

If the refs call walking on your spin move twice in the first five
minutes, you're going to adjust. If they call touch fouls on the
perimeter, you're going to adjust. If they let you hack the bejesus
out the guy you're defending on the wing, or mud wrestle the guy
you're defending on the blocks, you're going to by God keep on doing
it. If they call charges when you flop, you're going to keep on
flopping, and if they don't call charges when you flop, you're going
to stand on your feet and quit trying to look like Shane Battier or
Greg Paulus.

Statistics like foul differential tend to self-correct toward the
mid-point over time. You can make certain general statement, like
teams will commit fewer fouls, over time, when they play zone defenses
than when they play an attacking man-to-man, but otherwise, things
tend to be dependent on circumstances.

Even the argument that the Dookies try to peddle about foul
differentials being determined by late game fouling is largely
baloney. In a game with a 35-second shot clock and a three-point
line, the number of games where you have the inexorable late-game
march to the foul line is pretty small. The effect that phenomenon is
going to have on foul differential numbers over the course of an
entire season is very modest. 20 years ago, before the shot clock,
when the last five minutes of every even semi-close game was a march
to the foul line was different. But nowadays, fouling, if it happens
at all, doesn't usually start till the last minute or so of the game.

Current Thread:

   Duke Doesn't Get All the Calls??????  --  DoubleHoo05   Thu Aug 7 2008 12:48:41 PM
       UVa is tied for 221st - fouling 0.7 more times than getting fouled/game **  --  VermontCav   Thu Aug 7 2008 7:15:31 PM
       His analysis also neglects cause/effect...i.e. the BIG MAN  --  TJS Hoo   Thu Aug 7 2008 7:03:02 PM
           Re: His analysis also neglects cause/effect...i.e. the BIG MAN  --  ACC   Thu Aug 7 2008 9:04:16 PM
           You can't do a statistical analysis of that kind of phenomenon, because...  --  UHoo   Thu Aug 7 2008 7:21:01 PM
       It's the no-calls that matter...  --  CiscoKid   Thu Aug 7 2008 7:01:03 PM
           I agree. The no calls are often worse and/or more frequent than  --  mwolve   Thu Aug 7 2008 10:24:41 PM
       Of course not. They play Carolina (at least) twice a year. **  --  aficionadHOO   Thu Aug 7 2008 5:17:01 PM
       They do, and for being controversial, Parrish is getting a lot of clicks. Dumb. **  --  hooyorkcity   Thu Aug 7 2008 4:58:19 PM
       Watch UVa @ Duke in 2001-2002...answered the question for me permanently  --  NickS      Thu Aug 7 2008 4:51:12 PM
           Re: Watch UVa @ Duke in 2001-2002...answered the question for me permanently  --  ACC   Thu Aug 7 2008 9:06:53 PM
               Clearly i'm remembering the wrong year haha. **  --  NickS      Fri Aug 8 2008 8:55:54 AM
       Re: Duke Doesn't Get All the Calls??????  --  KBrown   Thu Aug 7 2008 4:32:17 PM
           16 times, including twice in NCAA losses  --  ACC   Thu Aug 7 2008 4:45:38 PM
               I enjoyed Shelden's acting job to sell a charge when the 6'9" PF  --  dpc1994   Thu Aug 7 2008 9:03:55 PM
                   Not surprising that Williams sucks in the NBA  --  2001Hoo   Thu Aug 7 2008 11:00:42 PM
                       I was having lunch with some Big East fans awhile ago  --  dpc1994   Fri Aug 8 2008 6:46:53 AM
                       Thats why most of them suck when they reach the nba...no duke refs there. **  --  recruitdc   Fri Aug 8 2008 12:27:54 AM
               Those stats don't prove your point since he obviously was able to avoid that 5th  --  baconhoo   Thu Aug 7 2008 5:00:25 PM
                   Your logic is dizzying  --  ACC   Thu Aug 7 2008 9:13:58 PM
                       Have you ever heard of the word "hyperbole?"  --  hooyorkcity   Thu Aug 7 2008 9:35:23 PM
                           Comparison of fouls for big men  --  ACC   Fri Aug 8 2008 9:03:59 AM
                               It's pretty difficult to dispute a premise with a fact about another guy  --  hooyorkcity   Fri Aug 8 2008 6:14:48 PM
                                   Re: It's pretty difficult to dispute a premise with a fact about another guy  --  ACC   Fri Aug 8 2008 10:03:26 PM
                                       Is that percentage true when it's a non-ACC crew in the NCAA's?   --  hooyorkcity   Fri Aug 8 2008 10:16:37 PM
                           Re: Have you ever heard of the word "hyperbole?"  --  ACC   Thu Aug 7 2008 10:19:07 PM
       All things being equal, you would expect the leaders in foul differential...  --  UHoo   Thu Aug 7 2008 3:10:13 PM
           Other than syracuse, what major teams play zone the majority of the time  --  ACC   Thu Aug 7 2008 3:20:32 PM
               I'm not going to get into a discussion...  --  UHoo   Thu Aug 7 2008 4:58:19 PM
                   Re: I'm not going to get into a discussion...  --  ACC   Thu Aug 7 2008 9:15:54 PM
       Yea...by far Duke gets away with more than any other team...how many clock malfu  --  recruitdc   Thu Aug 7 2008 2:47:56 PM
       I think when fouls are called during a game is more important than how many.  --  Hillhoo   Thu Aug 7 2008 1:35:43 PM
           Actually, i would guess foul differential on average grows late in the game   --  ACC   Thu Aug 7 2008 3:25:30 PM
           I never thought the Duke advantage was measured by raw differential of calls...  --  CLC-UVA   Thu Aug 7 2008 1:56:56 PM
               I agree, although I might prefer "Duke Deviancy," even though it might be...  --  UHoo   Thu Aug 7 2008 5:00:37 PM
               I agree. How many teams can play their aggressive defense and not be in foul  --  Hillhoo   Thu Aug 7 2008 2:19:52 PM
                   Thats bc the refs could not get away with pretending as though duke could handle  --  recruitdc   Thu Aug 7 2008 3:19:02 PM

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